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Faulpaleple Click to EMail FaulpalepleClick to check IP address of the poster 22-Sep-10, 08:05 PM (GMT)
"Has understood not "
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wait... so drivers means its a software reason and not a hardware reason. And since sony is still adding the other OS feature to the fat PS3's firmware why cant they add it to the slims?
02 Sep 2009 @ 0:09<br />
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<br />Funny...when the universities started doing this, Sony was proud...they practicaly advertised it. Now it is too much of a bother to write one driver. How much could this save? Even if the driver costed $100,000 to write...it would add only pennies per system sold.Instead, as the article mentions, this will force hackers to break the PS3 protection to install linux...and as long as they are at it, they will probably allow for pirated software as well...lets see how that helps the game sales!<br />
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<br />At least it's an answer rather than just, "Oh, and this option no longer works." Maybe offer a PS3 Slim w/ custom firmware to re-enable the Linux option for a higher cost so as not to be taking losses on Linux cluster sales! It would still be cheaper for those who want them than buying IBM Cell blades...or maybe IBM also didn't want the PS3 clusters as competition???<br />
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<br />I think the big reason is given in the edito of this news article:- Sony makes a loss on every console sold- Sony gets revenue from games sold on the PS3- Some people (mostly universities & research centres) bought PS3's to run Linux on it and use the cell's computing system, not to buy games on itPut all this together and I think it's clear that Sony thought the ability to use Linux costs them a lot more than it's added value is for gamers who buy the system. That's probably why they eliminated that feature, to prevent the PS3 from turning into a cheap computing piece of hardware.<br />
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<br />Originally posted by xnonsuchx: At least it's an answer rather than just, "Oh, and this option no longer works." Maybe offer a PS3 Slim w/ custom firmware to re-enable the Linux option for a higher cost so as not to be taking losses on Linux cluster sales! It would still be cheaper for those who want them than buying IBM Cell blades...or maybe IBM also didn't want the PS3 clusters as competition???It would be so sweet to have a slim PS3 that was intended for linux...maybe they could also include some ram as long as they are jacking up the price...I have four times more ram built into my RAID card than the PS3 has total! Heck, they might even be able to step into the PC market...more reliable than PC while more affordable than Apple.<br />
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<br />they could remove Linux capabilities from all PS3's via an update if they really wanted to.as for backwards compatibility, ppl want it, sony say "no way we want you to purchase new games not play the old ones as we don't make money from that sort of thing"them old games do suck though, who would want to play GTA San Andreas any-more, you know them dark age games, get with the times people!old games are blocked to force new sales it's a common, bend over and lube up tactic employed by many.<br />
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<br />Interesting viewpoint on the reason they removed it, though I must say they wouldn't be ignorant enough to realize it could be a potential future market once they begin to make money with every console sold.Originally posted by pphoenix: as for backwards compatibility, ppl want it, sony say "no way we want you to purchase new games not play the old ones as we don't make money from that sort of thing"them old games do suck though, who would want to play GTA San Andreas any-more, you know them dark age games, get with the times people!old games are blocked to force new sales it's a common, bend over and lube up tactic employed by many.As far as bwc goes I'd have to disagree, I find that most people whine about having it but in reality would never use it. For a few reasons:1.)Anyone who has a bunch of ps2 games likely has a ps2 already.2.)Playing ps2 games on the ps3 was far from perfect even with my 60gig ps3, I'd rather play them on the ps2.It has nothing to do with forcing us to buy new games, they just realize that the majority of people would never really use it. And most people who complain about it were likely either actually not in the market to get a ps3 anyway/had no intentions to get one regardless; and even if they did would they actually get the use out of it that they claim they would? I'd have to say no, I've only ever used it to play gt4 and some old nhl game because I was curious to how it works.<br />
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<br />Quote:Interesting viewpoint on the reason they removed it, though I must say they wouldn't be ignorant enough to realize it could be a potential future market once they begin to make money with every console sold.Originally posted by pphoenix: as for backwards compatibility, ppl want it, sony say "no way we want you to purchase new games not play the old ones as we don't make money from that sort of thing"them old games do suck though, who would want to play GTA San Andreas any-more, you know them dark age games, get with the times people!old games are blocked to force new sales it's a common, bend over and lube up tactic employed by many.As far as bwc goes I'd have to disagree, I find that most people whine about having it but in reality would never use it. For a few reasons:1.)Anyone who has a bunch of ps2 games likely has a ps2 already.2.)Playing ps2 games on the ps3 was far from perfect even with my 60gig ps3, I'd rather play them on the ps2.It has nothing to do with forcing us to buy new games, they just realize that the majority of people would never really use it. And most people who complain about it were likely either actually not in the market to get a ps3 anyway/had no intentions to get one regardless; and even if they did would they actually get the use out of it that they claim they would? I'd have to say no, I've only ever used it to play gt4 and some old nhl game because I was curious to how it works.It gets used more than you think I played as many PSX games as PS2 on the PS2, the PS3 dose not give me that option so I am in no rush to buy a new thing that only dose new stuff that offer less quality than the old stuff.===============Is it me or has modern business's forgotten what value added means?You offer extra features and services as so you can spread whatever it is you are selling out just a bit more. You take away options,you back step on features you say no sorry you can return a suck ass film,cd or game after a few days of torture is it any wonder why people flock away from the media industry(see music industry and cd sales, see current drop in game software sales of 30+%) I swear its like they don't understand they treat the consumer like ##### and charge them double for the pleasure and then wonder why they are loosing money still....
02 Sep 2009 @ 10:43<br />
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<br />Originally posted by xnonsuchx: At least it's an answer rather than just, "Oh, and this option no longer works." Maybe offer a PS3 Slim w/ custom firmware to re-enable the Linux option for a higher cost so as not to be taking losses on Linux cluster sales! It would still be cheaper for those who want them than buying IBM Cell blades...or maybe IBM also didn't want the PS3 clusters as competition???No reputable company is going to use PS3s as the backbone of their infrastructure. Let's get real.Most folks doing it are schools doing it simply for the exercise (experience) and to say they could. Sandbox stuff with no real business value.And zippy... there is only value add if that feature is valued by the majority of consumers. Just because you or a minority want a feature, doesn't mean there will be any true, realized value by adding the feature.<br />
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<br />Quote:Originally posted by xnonsuchx: At least it's an answer rather than just, "Oh, and this option no longer works." Maybe offer a PS3 Slim w/ custom firmware to re-enable the Linux option for a higher cost so as not to be taking losses on Linux cluster sales! It would still be cheaper for those who want them than buying IBM Cell blades...or maybe IBM also didn't want the PS3 clusters as competition???No reputable company is going to use PS3s as the backbone of their infrastructure. Let's get real.Most folks doing it are schools doing it simply for the exercise (experience) and to say they could. Sandbox stuff with no real business value.And zippy... there is only value add if that feature is valued by the majority of consumers. Just because you or a minority want a feature, doesn't mean there will be any true, realized value by adding the feature.It dose not matter it adds value to it and helps it sale by making it more competitive, the trouble is they are competing with them self and decided instead of adding 40$ to the price to break even they just took out the part. And that's what I am getting at removing services/features,employing dumb asses(consumer service,retail,ect)=Profit!!<br />
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<br />Quote:Originally posted by xnonsuchx: At least it's an answer rather than just, "Oh, and this option no longer works." Maybe offer a PS3 Slim w/ custom firmware to re-enable the Linux option for a higher cost so as not to be taking losses on Linux cluster sales! It would still be cheaper for those who want them than buying IBM Cell blades...or maybe IBM also didn't want the PS3 clusters as competition???It would be so sweet to have a slim PS3 that was intended for linux...maybe they could also include some ram as long as they are jacking up the price...I have four times more ram built into my RAID card than the PS3 has total! Heck, they might even be able to step into the PC market...more reliable than PC while more affordable than Apple.Ya the PS3 would be a no brainer from almost any POV if it had twice as much ram as it dose but because of that bottle neck its barely even with the 360 in terms of real world power and presentation....<br />
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<br />I know a lot of people with PS3's, none of them have put Linux on theirs, nor do they have the desire to do so. It was a nice bonus just to have, but something 95% of people don't ever use. Also as BWC PS3 owner, i will say it's way over hyped. I used it once, and have never played again. When i want to play PS2 I simply go downstairs to my trusty old 35inch Sony CRT Triniton tv, fire up the PS2 and play. The PS2 and it's games were designed to look best on 480i standard Def with composite or s-cable hookup...and they do. The PS3's BWC reveals too many imperfections as it tries to HD the games. Which makes graphically awesome games like God of War look pixelated and choppy.<br />
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<br />Originally posted by ZippyDSM: Quote:Originally posted by xnonsuchx: At least it's an answer rather than just, "Oh, and this option no longer works." Maybe offer a PS3 Slim w/ custom firmware to re-enable the Linux option for a higher cost so as not to be taking losses on Linux cluster sales! It would still be cheaper for those who want them than buying IBM Cell blades...or maybe IBM also didn't want the PS3 clusters as competition???It would be so sweet to have a slim PS3 that was intended for linux...maybe they could also include some ram as long as they are jacking up the price...I have four times more ram built into my RAID card than the PS3 has total! Heck, they might even be able to step into the PC market...more reliable than PC while more affordable than Apple.Ya the PS3 would be a no brainer from almost any POV if it had twice as much ram as it dose but because of that bottle neck its barely even with the 360 in terms of real world power and presentation....Wow that's REALLY odd seeing that come from you Zippy, you understand technology better than that! The PS3 has 4 times the internal bandwidth and twice the memory bandwidth of the 360.Quote:There has been a lot of talk about the Playstation 3¡¯s Random Access Memory (RAM) vs Xbox 360¡¯s RAM, saying that the 360 has more RAM to work with etc. Here¡¯s an article to explain the situation of its RAM.Just so you know that the PS3 has 512MB of RAM (256 for video and 256 for system). The Cell chip has 256MB of completely sharable RAM, the GPU has 256MB of dedicated RAM. Now the key here is what type of RAM it is.The Playstation 3 has 256mb of GDDR3 at 700mhz and 256Mb of XDR at 3.2ghz. So what exactly is XDR ram? Here are some of the highlights: * XDR makes PS3 super effiecient * XDR aids in faster cache mapping, both direct and indirect * XDR ram works by a pointer to pointer technology and needs very small buswidth for execution * XDR is not just faster than GDDR3 but it is much more efficient * XDR RAM works by breaking down data into several packets which prevents data loss and exceptions The Rambus XDR? memory architecture is a total memory system solution that achieves an order of magnitude higher performance than today¡¯s standard memories while utilizing the fewest ICs. Perfect for compute and consumer electronics applicationsThe PS3 has two times as much cache at 2x the speed, making it way faster for direct/indirect mapping. Not only that but it has 512k of L1 cache + 1.7m of L2 cache for the 7 spes. The PS3¡¯s GPU, RSX was made to work with the Cell processor, it is not some GPU they took and slotted in. It is made to be compatible with the Cell.More RAM does not mean a faster system it means more data can be stored in a fast access area. Games don¡¯t always need 512mb of RAM.The RSX can freely use as much of the 512MB total RAM that the PS3 has because the Cell doesn¡¯t need much RAM because its fast enough. And the fact that the PS3 has XDR means that it has faster access to data files.A lot of people are saying that the RSX only has 256mb of RAM, whereas the 360¡¯s GPU has 512MB of RAM. To make it sound a bit simpler, here¡¯s the real deal. The PS3 has it¡¯s RAM in two separate parts, 256MB for the RSX and 256MB that can be used be either the Cell or RSX.SourceWith titles like Killzone 2, GT5 Prolugue + GT5, Heavenly Sword, Uncharted 1 & 2 coming up (just to name a few) that show a definite real world difference I can't agree with you Zippy when you say that the PS3 is "barely even with the 360 in terms of real world power and presentation". Sorry.
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<br />I think linux on PS3 is really intended for a small % of people anyhow. I think its great that Sony supported the idea for the older models, but I think the slim is competing for sales this holiday and that demographic isn't as interested in linux.as for BC... I too have a 60gig and I think my PS2 games run just fine as long as I keep the aspect ratio 4:3. But I do have a theory for the lack of BC support..We know that they (sony) has patented a method to run PS2 software on the PS3 using software emulation. I think this will be implemented in a firmware update, but I think it will happen in correlation with the availability of PS2 downloadable titles from the PSN. That way, Sony can say they have a way to play PS2 games.. but you have to buy them. So in a business sense its a "win win" in Sony's eyes.. even though most people who are interested in BC want it to be disk based. The reason I think they will use this method to deploy their BC firmware update, is because of the public outcry for more PS1 titles on the PSN.. and this is despite the fact that ALL PS3s play PS1 games on disk.Just my theory.. just throwing it out there.. just seems pointless to develop a software emulation for PS2 data and not implement it.<br />
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<br />Originally posted by Oner: Originally posted by ZippyDSM: Quote:Originally posted by xnonsuchx: At least it's an answer rather than just, "Oh, and this option no longer works." Maybe offer a PS3 Slim w/ custom firmware to re-enable the Linux option for a higher cost so as not to be taking losses on Linux cluster sales! It would still be cheaper for those who want them than buying IBM Cell blades...or maybe IBM also didn't want the PS3 clusters as competition???It would be so sweet to have a slim PS3 that was intended for linux...maybe they could also include some ram as long as they are jacking up the price...I have four times more ram built into my RAID card than the PS3 has total! Heck, they might even be able to step into the PC market...more reliable than PC while more affordable than Apple.Ya the PS3 would be a no brainer from almost any POV if it had twice as much ram as it dose but because of that bottle neck its barely even with the 360 in terms of real world power and presentation....Wow that's REALLY odd seeing that come from you Zippy, you understand technology better than that! The PS3 has 4 times the internal bandwidth and twice the memory bandwidth of the 360.Quote:There has been a lot of talk about the Playstation 3¡¯s Random Access Memory (RAM) vs Xbox 360¡¯s RAM, saying that the 360 has more RAM to work with etc. Here¡¯s an article to explain the situation of its RAM.Just so you know that the PS3 has 512MB of RAM (256 for video and 256 for system). The Cell chip has 256MB of completely sharable RAM, the GPU has 256MB of dedicated RAM. Now the key here is what type of RAM it is.The Playstation 3 has 256mb of GDDR3 at 700mhz and 256Mb of XDR at 3.2ghz. So what exactly is XDR ram? Here are some of the highlights: * XDR makes PS3 super effiecient * XDR aids in faster cache mapping, both direct and indirect * XDR ram works by a pointer to pointer technology and needs very small buswidth for execution * XDR is not just faster than GDDR3 but it is much more efficient * XDR RAM works by breaking down data into several packets which prevents data loss and exceptions The Rambus XDR? memory architecture is a total memory system solution that achieves an order of magnitude higher performance than today¡¯s standard memories while utilizing the fewest ICs. Perfect for compute and consumer electronics applicationsThe PS3 has two times as much cache at 2x the speed, making it way faster for direct/indirect mapping. Not only that but it has 512k of L1 cache + 1.7m of L2 cache for the 7 spes. The PS3¡¯s GPU, RSX was made to work with the Cell processor, it is not some GPU they took and slotted in. It is made to be compatible with the Cell.More RAM does not mean a faster system it means more data can be stored in a fast access area. Games don¡¯t always need 512mb of RAM.The RSX can freely use as much of the 512MB total RAM that the PS3 has because the Cell doesn¡¯t need much RAM because its fast enough. And the fact that the PS3 has XDR means that it has faster access to data files.A lot of people are saying that the RSX only has 256mb of RAM, whereas the 360¡¯s GPU has 512MB of RAM. To make it sound a bit simpler, here¡¯s the real deal. The PS3 has it¡¯s RAM in two separate parts, 256MB for the RSX and 256MB that can be used be either the Cell or RSX.SourceWith titles like Killzone 2, GT5 Prolugue + GT5, Heavenly Sword, Uncharted 1 & 2 coming up (just to name a few) that show a definite real world difference I can't agree with you Zippy when you say that the PS3 is "barely even with the 360 in terms of real world power and presentation". Sorry.And due to the nature of the hardware you can not easily optimize software for it. Thus halveing its real world potential almost twice.....editThe PS3 looks great on paper but is no where near its theoretical maximums. At least for now in 2 or 4 years it might well be that much more special than what the 360 is but for now there is no real difference other than LIVE subscription fee.
02 Sep 2009 @ 12:38Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy!Ah modern gaming its like modern film only the watering down of fiction and characters is replaced with shallow and watered down mechanics, gimmicks and shiny-er "people".http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/<;br />
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<br />Originally posted by Hunt720: I think linux on PS3 is really intended for a small % of people anyhow. I think its great that Sony supported the idea for the older models, but I think the slim is competing for sales this holiday and that demographic isn't as interested in linux.as for BC... I too have a 60gig and I think my PS2 games run just fine as long as I keep the aspect ratio 4:3. But I do have a theory for the lack of BC support..We know that they (sony) has patented a method to run PS2 software on the PS3 using software emulation. I think this will be implemented in a firmware update, but I think it will happen in correlation with the availability of PS2 downloadable titles from the PSN. That way, Sony can say they have a way to play PS2 games.. but you have to buy them. So in a business sense its a "win win" in Sony's eyes.. even though most people who are interested in BC want it to be disk based. The reason I think they will use this method to deploy their BC firmware update, is because of the public outcry for more PS1 titles on the PSN.. and this is despite the fact that ALL PS3s play PS1 games on disk.Just my theory.. just throwing it out there.. just seems pointless to develop a software emulation for PS2 data and not implement it.Not really, it can still be implemented in selling you PS2 games through the PSN store.Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy!Ah modern gaming its like modern film only the watering down of fiction and characters is replaced with shallow and watered down mechanics, gimmicks and shiny-er "people".http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/<;br />
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<br />Quote:Originally posted by Hunt720: I think linux on PS3 is really intended for a small % of people anyhow. I think its great that Sony supported the idea for the older models, but I think the slim is competing for sales this holiday and that demographic isn't as interested in linux.as for BC... I too have a 60gig and I think my PS2 games run just fine as long as I keep the aspect ratio 4:3. But I do have a theory for the lack of BC support..We know that they (sony) has patented a method to run PS2 software on the PS3 using software emulation. I think this will be implemented in a firmware update, but I think it will happen in correlation with the availability of PS2 downloadable titles from the PSN. That way, Sony can say they have a way to play PS2 games.. but you have to buy them. So in a business sense its a "win win" in Sony's eyes.. even though most people who are interested in BC want it to be disk based. The reason I think they will use this method to deploy their BC firmware update, is because of the public outcry for more PS1 titles on the PSN.. and this is despite the fact that ALL PS3s play PS1 games on disk.Just my theory.. just throwing it out there.. just seems pointless to develop a software emulation for PS2 data and not implement it.Not really, it can still be implemented in selling you PS2 games through the PSN store.yes... my point exactly<br />
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<br />Quote:Quote:Originally posted by Hunt720: I think linux on PS3 is really intended for a small % of people anyhow. I think its great that Sony supported the idea for the older models, but I think the slim is competing for sales this holiday and that demographic isn't as interested in linux.as for BC... I too have a 60gig and I think my PS2 games run just fine as long as I keep the aspect ratio 4:3. But I do have a theory for the lack of BC support..We know that they (sony) has patented a method to run PS2 software on the PS3 using software emulation. I think this will be implemented in a firmware update, but I think it will happen in correlation with the availability of PS2 downloadable titles from the PSN. That way, Sony can say they have a way to play PS2 games.. but you have to buy them. So in a business sense its a "win win" in Sony's eyes.. even though most people who are interested in BC want it to be disk based. The reason I think they will use this method to deploy their BC firmware update, is because of the public outcry for more PS1 titles on the PSN.. and this is despite the fact that ALL PS3s play PS1 games on disk.Just my theory.. just throwing it out there.. just seems pointless to develop a software emulation for PS2 data and not implement it.Not really, it can still be implemented in selling you PS2 games through the PSN store.yes... my point exactlyDOH...reading ...I no haz it...least not today...morning just wont go away ><<br />
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<br />thats ok. were still on for beers and console bashing for friday though right? ;-P<br />
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<br />Originally posted by Hunt720: Quote:Originally posted by Hunt720: I think linux on PS3 is really intended for a small % of people anyhow. I think its great that Sony supported the idea for the older models, but I think the slim is competing for sales this holiday and that demographic isn't as interested in linux.as for BC... I too have a 60gig and I think my PS2 games run just fine as long as I keep the aspect ratio 4:3. But I do have a theory for the lack of BC support..We know that they (sony) has patented a method to run PS2 software on the PS3 using software emulation. I think this will be implemented in a firmware update, but I think it will happen in correlation with the availability of PS2 downloadable titles from the PSN. That way, Sony can say they have a way to play PS2 games.. but you have to buy them. So in a business sense its a "win win" in Sony's eyes.. even though most people who are interested in BC want it to be disk based. The reason I think they will use this method to deploy their BC firmware update, is because of the public outcry for more PS1 titles on the PSN.. and this is despite the fact that ALL PS3s play PS1 games on disk.Just my theory.. just throwing it out there.. just seems pointless to develop a software emulation for PS2 data and not implement it.Not really, it can still be implemented in selling you PS2 games through the PSN store.yes... my point exactlyOr how about even porting (not emulating) PS2 games like Marvel vs Capcom 2 or the new God of War Collection set coming up to be released in 720p HD on a Blu-ray disc for $30/$40 bucks...Originally posted by ZippyDSM: And due to the nature of the hardware you can not easily optimize software for it. Thus halveing its real world potential almost twice.....editThe PS3 looks great on paper but is no where near its theoretical maximums. At least for now in 2 or 4 years it might well be that much more special than what the 360 is but for now there is no real difference other than LIVE subscription fee.I don't know Zippy. This gen Sony has been more than forthcoming on giving/sharing/offering devs support, help, tools & such from within & for all not just first party's either...
02 Sep 2009 @ 14:00Search > http://forums.afterdawn.com/searchRules > http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487Important Rule > http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/380660<;br />
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<br />I dont even know what Lenux is. What type of enjoyment can an "above average guy" like me get out of it? Serious!<br />
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<br />Originally posted by glassd: I dont even know what Linux (*edit) is. What type of enjoyment can an "above average guy" like me get out of it? Serious!If you like to play old school emulators like NES, SNES, Genesis, TG16, N64 etc. and use other applications like VideoLan, Firefox or any number of other useful stuff then it can matter quite a lot in terms of functionality/options...
02 Sep 2009 @ 14:20Search > http://forums.afterdawn.com/searchRules > http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487Important Rule > http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/380660<;br />
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<br />Ok. I have a ton of Sega Genesis Games out in the shop. Will have a hard time inserting them into my 60gig PS3.I understand, thanks.<br />
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<br />Originally posted by glassd: I dont even know what Lenux is. What type of enjoyment can an "above average guy" like me get out of it? Serious!For 95-99% of end users, it's no big deal. For the ultra-geeky few, it's something to experiment with (it's hard to imagine any PS3 user doesn't already have a PC/Mac for their primary computer use). The limited memory and lack of graphics acceleration (the RSX GPU isn't accessible in 'Other OS' mode) turns it into a fairly basic computer unless you have apps designed to use the 6 available Cell SPUs. The biggest issue is that Sony essentially put out of business a few companies that were selling PS3 Linux clusters...unless they can continue by sourcing used/refurbed older PS3s.<br />
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<br />Originally posted by glassd: Ok. I have a ton of Sega Genesis Games out in the shop. Will have a hard time inserting them into my 60gig PS3.I understand, thanks.You got a chuckle out of me on that one! Touch¨¦ Search > http://forums.afterdawn.com/searchRules > http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487Important Rule > http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/380660
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